#53 The Key is a Mother's Love

Linda Sue Key is my next guest on the Unbreakable Boundaries Podcast. She is a Mother of a son who has been in his addiction for over 25 yrs. She worked for over 20 years as a substance abuse counselor, including working in a men's prison. Recently, she started a new ministry called "The Key to Recovery is a Mother's Love." She loves the Lord with all her heart and God has called her to help moms of addicted adult children overcome the chaos, confusion, and brokenness that substance abuse can bring by finding balance, compassion and hope through prayer, education, and support.

Facebook Group: Moms Helping Moms of Adult Children Struggling with Addiction
Email: Linda.Sue.Key@gmail.com

Transcript

Jen: 0:00

Welcome back to the unbreakable boundaries podcast with your host, myself, Jennifer Maneely. I have an amazing guest with me today something that I've been searching for since I started this podcast, and have always found it rather challenging to find. So I'm super grateful. She's here. She is a mother. Her name is Linda Suki. And she has a son that has been in addiction addiction for over 25 years. So Oh, I am sure she can tell so many stories in that she also spent quite many years it as a substance abuse counselor. So I think that's a great thing to understand both sides of things, one being a mom, and then to seeing so many of the other side of things, not just not just her son, she did that for over 20 years. And now she has started a ministry that is called the key to recovery is a mother's love now. Welcome to the show. Linda, thank you so much for being here.

Linda: 1:08

Well, thank you. I mean, I'm excited to share some of these exciting events with you. Yeah.

Jen: 1:13

It's, it's, it's always really interesting to hear the stories, there's so much stories to be told in terms of the situations you found yourself in the situations you found yourself son in. And one of the places that I would love to start is almost right from the beginning of your son's addiction. So I guess the first question is, is what was the situation in which you started knowing that something was going on with your son? Well, I

Linda: 1:53

think that adolescents, you know, the 1415 year old little rebellion that teenage boys go through. And he, he went through it, he was struggling with smoking weed and drinking and all of those things that that they go through. And you know, when a child starts using drugs, they're their growth stops at that age. Yep. So for 20 years later, I still have this 14 year old, 15 year old mindset of a kid who was lazy, didn't really find a job had no goals. He didn't want to go to high school. Consequently, he didn't want to work. And so his addiction started really, really young. Now, at that time, I was not a drug and alcohol counselor, I was just working in corporate America. So I didn't know all the things that were happening. And I come from a very high addictive family, my siblings are all addicted, my parents had issues with drugs and alcohol. So coming from an addiction family, and having my son get wrapped up in his addiction, I think my dad is the first one who shared pot with my son at a really young age. And so I went through all of those things so young, and again, I was in corporate America working, and not really paying attention to a lot of the science. But as he grew his addiction, especially to alcohol, and whatever other drug he was given, just got worse and worse. He is going to say that thing that kind of settled him down, even though he's still highly addicted to alcohol. The thing that settled him down from the other drugs was in his late 30s, he got a girl pregnant and had a baby girl. And he wanted to be such a good dad, that he stopped doing all the other drugs to be a good dad. And my joke was to him if I knew that you would stop doing drugs, you could have a kid at 16 and say, that's a whole lot of work. You know, but, but he did, he really did stop doing all the other drugs to be a good dad. But the alcohol just got worse that at that time,

Jen: 4:21

right? And that and that happens a lot. You know, a lot of people want to stop doing all of the hard stuff because they have kids. And so then they turned deeper into something else that we deemed to be a little bit more socially acceptable, right, like alcohol. So that can be a really challenge. So you had said something that I kind of want to dive in a little bit. So hindsight is always 2020. Right? We always get the luxury of being able to look back and go, Well, this makes so much sense now. And so you were in corporate America. So, you know, I think most of my listeners know that I I'm in recovery. And so I, I was going through the 1415 year old stages as well. And my mom was also in corporate America, you know, she had a bet big job with a very large bank. And so she was missing a lot of things too, because she's so focused, hindsight being 2020. What? Now that you can see it for what it was that you kind of probably just shrugged it off as normal 1415 year old rebellion stuff? What were some of those like, red flags, the signals that you can see now that you didn't see then?

Linda: 5:42

Well, I think you you look at who he surrounded himself with who his friends were, who was coming around to the house, if they even came around. And you look at the signs, I mean, the lack of self esteem, lack of ability to get up and go to school, much less later on, go to work, you know, that all they want to do is sit around and do nothing, and, you know, drink and whatever. So, it's just, their life is slipping away, year after year, their life is just slipping away. And what could I have done differently, I think, just really give him some help that he needed way back then, you know, something had to have happened or something was going on in his life. And I and I know intuitively what it was, but something's going on in his life that's changing him. And, and nothing stopping it. There's nobody giving him guidance or help or, or moving him forward to doing the things he needs to do. Because his dad was out of the picture very young. And so any step dad that came into the picture really didn't help him. Because so he didn't have any male figure to give him guidance. And so I wish I had found some, you know, some professional help for him back in his adolescence, I think that would have changed things a lot. Right?

Jen: 7:13

Yeah. It could have and then it's, it's kind of one of those things where it's like, it's hard to know, because we don't ever really get to go back. Right. Right. And it's like, I know that the your ministry, the key to recovery is a mother's love is a very, it is a kind of a Christian based, or organization. And which I love, because I think it it kind of joins two very important things together, you know, Christianity and community around a very tough subject that needs to have a lot of love, and empathy and compassion in it. Right. And so I think this is the great thing about the ministry is also going well, I guess everything happens for a reason. Also, right, so So because I'll tell you, I was in and out of therapy my whole life. And I had the stepdad and I had all of those things, as well and a mother that very much cared, and it didn't help.

Linda: 8:24

Well, you, you look at two children, and I have two children that grew up in the exact same environment, the exact same home. Granted, one's a boy, one's a girl, my daughter, even though she may have played with things when she was in her adolescence, and I'm not saying she was a perfect child. But then from then on, she never she doesn't she didn't do any drugs didn't do any. She went on to do the things, you know, the right way, so to speak, she got married, had kids did you know, and still to this day, doesn't drink any alcohol or hasn't done any drugs? So how do two children with the exact same environment change and become so differently? I mean, who can answer that question?

Jen: 9:10

Well, that's that is the question, right? I've seen that happen a lot where, you know, you have the same exact things and that's where it's like, oh, man, it's, it's the journey of it is so interesting for everyone, for the families, for the person that is struggling with substance abuse, you know, it's it's each of our journeys to take and it can be so rewarding and so challenging, and that's why it's like, I feel like we just really need each other. So one of the things that I find to be very interesting about your journey, which relates and doesn't relate is that you are working in a men's prison for a long time. Yes. So the stories I'm sure but you can tell just on that. So what was your experience like working in a men's prison? And what was your What was your role in that?

Linda: 10:09

Well 25 years ago, I started as a drug and alcohol counselor, I became a certified drug and alcohol counselor working for a county and doing their DUI programs and doing groups and individual sessions and education for people who had multiple DUIs. So that was kind of where I had spent, you know, a good 10 years. And then I went to work inside a men's prison with that, so I worked for inside a men's and it was a maximum prison, you know, we had everything from level one to level fours. And the part that I worked in was the people that were getting out within a couple of years. And they were had some drug and alcohol issues, which is a lot of gangs, a lot of just a lot of different kinds of people. And I held a group every day, twice a day, a group of 15 to 20 inmates, and total there were 60 to 80 inmates in this room, and it was just divided up. But we'd come in, and we'd educate them on drugs and alcohol, and, you know, their history and what they did, and how they, you know, what they were going to do when they get out not to go back to that lifestyle. So it really was a rehabilitation portion of the, of the prison. And, you know, some of the guys I worked with, there were, you know, lifers that were, all of a sudden the laws have changed, and now they were getting out. And the whole world was different for them, you know, being in prison over 25 years, and they were coming out to a different world and all the drugs. I know, drugs and alcohol, or drugs, especially are passed around in the prison. In fact, one day, I was parking my car in the prison parking employee parking lot. And I saw another woman get out of her car and throw something up over this really big high fence into the prison yard. And I was just shocked that I was witnessing that. And you know, that whatever she was throwing what you know, had to be something, you know, crazy. And so they tell me all the time what was going on, but I think we're I sat I had blinders on to all of that, because I'm inside this one room, you know, and I'm not seeing all of it. But it was crazy. The things that went on inside the prison and and the people that were in there, you know, yeah, you have to really keep your, your, your boundaries, you can't communicate with them like you would a normal person, you have to really, especially as a woman inside a men's prison, you really have to keep your boundaries because you think manipulation is bad with drug and alcohol, people, people who it is so bad with inmates, they just want to see if they can manipulate you just a little bit, and then it just grows from there.

Jen: 13:11

So you've got to really accustomed to defending yourself against all of the different types of manipulations out there, right, you're like, oh, I can see that a mile away. I know what you do it,

Linda: 13:28

you see it before it even happens. I mean, they give you a lot of great training, before you can take on that kind of job, but you can see it happening. And you just you just gotta be gotta be ready for it.

Jen: 13:41

What was what was like one of the main forms of manipulation that you experienced that you could just, you could always just catch it, you could see it and defend yourself against,

Linda: 13:54

well give you an example. So if I had a cold, and I was going to work with a little bit of cough or a cold or you know, and I'm taking cough drops or whatever, you can guarantee in that group 10 other men had a cold and one of my cough drop. Now if I gave them a cough drop a small thing like a cough drop, then they would use that against me to say, Okay, now you can give me this. Now you can give me that, or I'm going to tell your boss that you you gave me something. So you're favoring certain inmates just by giving them a cough drop. So you can't let your guard down. Or even if you're having a conversation and one of them kind of moves in a little too close to have a deeper conversation with you so to speak. You have to back them up and say no, you're in my bubble. You can't get that close to me. So again, being a woman. That's all these men see 24/7 They're trying to figure out how can they manipulate you and communicate with you in such a way that Your guards going to be down. And they are being being having a guard up all the time,

Jen: 15:07

I can see where that would be exhausting again, a lot of times, like even on the outside, like if you have a loved one that lives with you, that also happens to be, you know, doing drugs and stuff, you almost have to have your guard up all the time. Right? So you're at one point, your son did live with you, right? What was that experience? Like?

Linda: 15:32

You know, he's lived with me off and on. So most recently, he came to live with me when his marriage was breaking up. And so he had no place to go, as he always says, and so, you know, being the mom, you say, Well, come on, I've got an extra bedroom. I'll let you live here. But here are the rules. And the rules are real simple. No smoking, no drinking, no drugs, no extra people, you know, but come on, I'll help you out. So him coming in here. Now, my husband is a recovering alcoholic. He's got this this Sunday, he'll have 18 years clean and sober. And I respect him so much. I don't want to have a beer in my refrigerator. Because that was my husband's struggle. Why would I do something like that? Even though he has all this clean time? Why would I do something like that to him. So I would tell my son, you can't have your beer, I don't care, you know, if you're going to have a beer, but you can't have it in my house, that's just not okay. Well, lo and behold, he's sneaking in beers, he's sneaking in those little bottles under his bed, he's sneaking in, you know, whatever he can sneak in to continue to use. And, and it really got to a point that every day I'm I'm in his face, or he's in my face, and their personalities changed so much under the influence of something even as much as alcohol, and it changed so much he would talk back to me and belittle me and, you know, scream at me sometimes. And, and again, no money, no job. So always looking to me just to supply his needs. And a lot of times I enable that you know, you want to do for your kids, whatever you can do. So you take off your dragon alcohol, hat, you know, boundaries, enabling all of these things, you take that hat off, and you put on the hat of a mom, and you're like, oh, you know, here's $20 for gas, and you know, $5.15 went to buy, you know, alcohol or whatever. So, but you continue to do that. And until it becomes so much that it comes to a head and it always will come to a head, you will always get to a place where you kick them out. And if their addiction is is really affecting the inside of your home. And so I told him that to one night where he was up all night long screaming and yelling and blah, blah, blah, and my husband had to go to work the next day. And I I said you got to leave. And the very next day, he left and got so drunk and got a DUI. And it just broke my heart. Because my a lot of my career was working with people who got DUIs, and how I hate that people drink and drive and put all of us on the road at danger, because of their ability, their lack of ability to stop drinking long enough. And I say if you drink, don't drive, and if you drive, don't drink, I mean those two things cannot go together. So he got a DUI. And, and that was a few days after Thanksgiving. And he didn't want to deal with it. So he promptly packed up his van and took off back to California, back to his daughter and his ex wife and and I'd hear from him, but nothing's changed. Well, his life is still a mess.

Jen: 19:10

And that's a long time to be experiencing this and I'm sure that you've had. I think it takes like a real emotional toll, especially on the families. This is why I feel like my passion has always been to support and help the families because the emotional toll it really takes can be so challenging. So I know that it's really important like for just the overall self care. So how do you balance that out? Because I think like you were saying like being a parent and being a mom and witnessing this, you want to show up you want to be there. How do you balance that out with taking care of yourself?

Linda: 19:56

I think you know when it gets to a place where you your personality, your life has changed so much in that, that's where it was going with me that you have to draw a line in the sand, you have to say enough is enough, I really care enough about my home, my relationship with my husband, my relationship with my daughters, and my grandkids, other grandkids, all of those things, those things have to take a higher priority than this one person who, who's full of their addiction. And so, and, and I had to take a higher priority, you know, I had to stop and say, Wait a second, I can't do this every day. So I have to ask you to leave. So I'm not dealing with this every day. Once he left, the weight that came off my shoulders, I realize he's still doing what he's doing in the world. But now, it's not on my shoulders, and I'm not the one who's giving him $20 For his next fix, or I'm not the one who's who's, you know, arguing with my husband about, you know, the whole relationship and stuff. So protect yourself first. And, and so since I did that, I had such a heart for the moms that are going through that, that I started a program. And and that's what it is. You know, loving your kid, but still loving yourself more. And. And so this program that I started, is basically a 12 week program where I do one on one coaching to the moms, and help them get through some of these struggles that I went through, and help them set themselves up first, and put their families first the other family members and and put what you know, they're not to put their kid down in any way, but to understand their child's addiction, and how can you walk along that with love with that child without being wrapped up in their addiction?

Jen: 22:03

Yeah. And I think that is so important that other moms can hear from a mom who's been through this, who's experienced this, and now has created something so valuable. out there that goes this is how we can walk through this without you losing yourself because these, like I experienced this, and I don't want you to have to go through some of the same struggles that I went through. Right, and and how important I think that's such an amazing thing. And I love the ministry that you've put together you have, I think how one of the how we met was through Facebook. And it was through like you had started a group I think it's remind me what it's called. It's moms,

Linda: 22:54

moms helping moms with adult children that are struggling with addiction. Yeah, so many moms don't want to say they have an addicted child or an addicted loved one. They don't want to label it. Yeah. Even though that's what it is. So, you know, your kid is struggling with their addiction. And so often, that addicted child is chasing the addiction, and the mom is chasing the child. So the mom is wrapped up, if this kid is addicted to whatever, fentanyl or heroin or any of the drugs, the mom is wrapped up in that child's addiction, and we're trying to get them out of it. But in indeed, all we're doing is is helping them with it. You know, like I said, I I was the first one to step up and give my son money. You know, $20 here $20 there to give him you know, whatever he needed it for. And and even though I knew he was using it for something else. Yeah. And and have you stopped that that's part of this program? How do you stop enabling them?

Jen: 24:05

Yeah. And I think that is so important, because I think that family members can love someone to death. Definitely. And it's scary. And here's here's something I think as you were saying this and something that I have felt is my mom will be the first one to tell you that in the beginning, she really struggled. Seeing my addiction for what it was right. So part of my journey was like I got into recovery. I was doing really well. And then I wasn't right. And I started telling her well, because I'm you know, part of a 12 step program. I was like, Well, I'm not doing the meetings anymore. I'm not doing all that stuff. A bigger part of her was really happy because she felt like that phase of my life was over and I could just move on with my life right now. because she didn't want to have, she didn't want to have to deal with the fact that I had an addiction. She was like, I just want her to be okay. Of course, what mother doesn't want their kid to be just be okay, and not have to deal with the fact that they have an addiction. And so but I think like when we like you were saying just now it is what it is. Let's look at it. Let's own it. And let's figure out how to manage it from this point point. Because the more we resist it, the more likely we are to enable that a little bit too much. Right? Well,

Linda: 25:40

I think we know our kids have an addiction. But then we don't want to say they're addicted. Yeah, and then when but but when they're in recovery, we want to say they're recovered. And, and you know, an addictive person is never truly recovered. You know, you've talked to a lot of people, they say, you're never really recovered. As I say, this week, I'm celebrating 18 years clean and sober. For my husband, he still is never completely recovered. And even though you think 18 years, that's so long, you know, you don't want to put a test in front of somebody who's recovered. So they're always in recovery. And we see that so often when they slip back, you know, when they relapse, you know, especially, you know, the shorter time, they can relapse, and then get back into recovery and relapse and get back into recovery. That's all part of it. That's how they learn what they can't tolerate. But my husband never ever, ever can drink a beer. And he'll tell you his life from here on never ever, ever have a beer, one beer will lose all those 18 years of recovery, who knows where it will take him. And so we've as much as we don't want to say they're ridic, they're addicted. But we do want to say that they're recovered once they saw.

Jen: 27:10

And I think I think this is where one language is really important. Because I think it's understanding around what it means, right? I think that a lot of people just really struggle with the idea that they have to deal with this on a long term basis. Because I think like you were saying, this is a really stressful thing, right? We just want it to be over. And yet, when it comes to something like this, yes, like, even my journey, right? I have, as I was telling you, I have almost 15 years, clean, right? And that's a really long time. I know, for me, I have to really manage, like, I don't get to go drink a beer my life is has nothing to do with drugs anymore, or alcohol. I have worked really hard on myself, I'm very happy with myself, my life is great. And I know that I don't ever get to like, really drink a beer or go test that because it will not be good, right? And I love who I am. And I think that even still, it's still a journey for both my mom and I, of what all of that has meant. And I think that a lot of times families just struggle with the idea of that this is a marathon. This is a journey and it's not a sprint, right? Like we're always gonna have to be mindful of what we are up against. I don't think my mom worry so much anymore of whether I'm going to go you know, drink or whatever. But if I did her her hackles so to speak would definitely be up very quickly. Right, like her guard is down, but she also knows that it can come right back up. Very quick.

Linda: 29:06

I think that's part of what they're having a program and having tools that you know what to look for in the early stages, that you know how to take care of yourself. And, you know, my program is faith based, you know, I believe that God is in control of our lives and that that we just need to give it to him and and he'll He'll guide us he'll, he'll help us every step of the way. And so, my My joy is to be able to help other moms find the same tools that I have of setting boundaries of getting your life back, have recharging, reviving, restoring, recovering your life, you know, we've given up so much and we need to take charge and take our lives back. And that's the only way we'll be able to help our children is if we're good ourselves. Well, and and

Jen: 30:01

I have to speak into that because I know for me, when I was going through my substance abuse, one of the things that was really helpful for me to see, and I didn't understand it at the time, but you know, hindsight being 2020, it was so great that my mom continued to live her life. And she started working on herself. And she started, you know, gaining these tools, she started really figuring out what she was going to do. beyond me, she wasn't chasing me anymore. I cannot tell you how much that helped me. And I think that's really, it's really important to, you know, have that because here's, here's what I see is his family member spending, you know, 1015 20 plus years in the same exact place. within themselves within it's like, you know, they're having the same conversations around their loved ones that they were 20 years ago, and just still feeling all of that stress and that weight of the world on ARM and, and it's like, you're never going to not have the fear, you're never going to not worry, or have the stress. But it's the balance. It's the it's the finding your own way through it, to be happy. And to have joy in your life, I think is really important. And that's what your your 12 week program is really all about is finding and striking that balance of going, this is what we are doing. And this is how you're going to save yourself.

Linda: 31:48

Well, I think we're asking our children are to get into recovery, we're asking them go into program, learn some tools, learn how you can live without this drug, or, or, or how you can repair yourself and become, you know, well again. But it's the same thing for the moms or the other other family members, those family members have to get into their recovery, start taking care of themselves, start feeling better about who they are, so that when their children do that, they're coming back to a parent who is strong, who's guiding them, who's giving them, you know, really godly biblical steps to take care of their life from then on. So I just really encourage the moms start taking better care of yourself get into a program that will help you support you, that will encourage you.

Jen: 32:42

Yeah, and I cannot tell you, that is just, I mean, it's essential, because it's like, whereas the tools may not always be the same for families and for the person recovering. So I think recovery, people need different things and different support and different help some of its overlaps, right? So I think it's like, you know, if someone was building a house, versus someone building a boat, some of the tools are going to be the same, some of the tools are going to be very different, right? But tools are essential in both of those, you can't build a house without it and you can't build a boat, without without it, even if it's some of them are different. And I think that's where a lot of families really struggle is because they go, Well, I'm not the one with the problem. They just need to go get better, and then all my problems will be solved. Ah, there's still going to be some some things to look at some challenges some obstacles to face. And, you know, the journey is yours to take, as well. So definitely, yeah, yeah. So, um, so what was one of the boundaries that you have found to be the most helpful for yourself?

Linda: 34:06

I think, you know, for me, it's a personal thing about getting back in my face, getting back into my church, getting back into my women's ministry, getting back into the people who support me and make me feel that I'm okay, that, that that there's a path for me, there's a plan for me, and then I'm not in this alone. And I have support and encouragement. So if I'm okay, they say if Mama's happy, everybody's happy. But if mama ain't happy, nobody's happy. And that is so true. If you're miserable in your life, then nobody around you is going to be happy either. So I think it's about finding what makes you happy. What brings you fulfillment? What would you want to wake up and do every single day? And for me, it's about about, you know, you know, I'm a grandma, you know, and that's important to me, I'm setting up legacies teaching these grandkids how to cook, I'm, I'm an important Grandma, I'm a wife, you know, and I just love being a wife. And so there are other roles, I'm a child of the Most High God, and worshiping Him and, and reading His word, and all of those things are so important to me. So finding out what's most important to me, is the most important thing you can do. Yeah,

Jen: 35:33

I love that, because it sounds like when it came time to have really helped yourself, or you found the most help was finding a community that, and you didn't have to walk this by yourself. And to ascertain it like that is kind of what you're also offering other moms is like, you don't have to walk this by yourself, you know, you're here to help them through and navigate some of the things and and really work through with them. The lessons that you've learned along the way.

Linda: 36:06

You know, a lot of times when a person gets to a, and they find that a sponsor, the first thing in a sponsor does before they even accept that person is they tell him you need to get a big book, and you need to read the first so many chapters and work the first four steps and then you know, and call me every day. So a sponsor will turn all these responsibilities back over to the person who wants help, you have to do XYZ, and then I'm here for you. So we as moms have to do the same thing to our addicted loved ones, when they say I'm ready to get the help, we have to be able to say, Okay, here's, here's three recovery programs, if that's what you want, go check into them and pick one up, we can't do it all for them. You know, we're so used to doing everything for our kids, we can't do it all for them. Giving them some of the responsibility for taking care of themselves, is what we need to do. And that's just one of the examples of the tools that you need. Yeah, is making them responsible for them.

Jen: 37:10

Yeah. And it's, it's because you know, as a, as a recovering person, one of the things that I've had to really work through, especially in the beginning was taking responsibility for my life. I spent so long blaming everything and everyone for all of my problems. And it was really easy. Can I just tell you, and this is not something I talk about a lot. But it was really, really easy, because I could tell a sob story. And people would give me a lot of grace, whether it was friends, whether it was family, whatever it was, when everything came falling down around me, I could go to my sob story. And people would let me off the hook. And then I could start blaming my whole life and all of my problems on whatever my sob story was, and I didn't have to take any responsibility, because people didn't make me. And that sounds really, that sounds really not good. But that's the truth. A lot of people do that. And it wasn't until I really started taking responsibility for that part of my life. And for not blaming everyone else that I really started feeling like I was, you know, kind of going through that recovery process. And it is important to really start diving in and taking that responsibility. And when other people take it away from me, man, it's, it's a great who doesn't want to who doesn't want to take responsibility for their lives, right. So I think you're right, in terms of kind of setting out those guidelines that say, you can help and you can support, but allow them the responsibility, right?

Linda: 39:02

And come up with a plan, whatever that plan is, how are you? How are you and them going to get from A to B, you know, give them little steps to get to get there but set up a plan. You know? It's baby steps. Yeah, but we need to support them. We need to encourage them we need to love them no matter what we're a mom, we're always gonna love them. And and we and they need to know that we love them. Even in their addiction. We still need the love them and need to feel that love.

Jen: 39:36

Yeah. And you know, I've mentored a lot of people and just like you were talking about earlier where it's like, I do have when I mentor someone, I tell them what it looks like, and I make them do all of the heavy lifting. Because I have to be mindful of my own energy in my own skin is like if I'm helping someone I'm totally here to help But I'm very mindful of how much so it's like, well, if you do this, then I'll do that. Right? Like, but you have to go do this first. And if you don't, that's okay, I'm just not going to put the energy into it, I do that even outside of like recovery or addiction, like when it comes to certain things, because like, there's always people that need help, right? And it's like, okay, totally willing to help you do this first or look at this, or if I have a conversation, and then you, we talk about it, and you're like, Oh, I'm gonna go do XY and Z, and then you don't go do XY and Z. It's like, okay, my energy, I'm done. Like, until you do X, Y, and Z, I don't have to put any more energy into it.

Linda: 40:46

You know, another big issue, that that part of my program is the knowledge, we have to have a knowledge of what our kids are doing, and taking and the drugs that they're using, and what the effects are, and how it changes them. And, and drugs are changing drastically. The the marijuana of you know, 20 years ago is not the marijuana of today. And the stuff that's on the streets right now, that is available for our kids is so different than than anything that we've had in the past, and it's killing them. I mean, don't get me going on the fentanyl whole thing. It's killing our children. And so we have to be educated on what the signs and symptoms are. Now, a lot of people don't want to get educated on that. They don't want to know this information. But if your child is doing it, you need to know it. You need to know what the signs and the dangers and stuff are, just so that you could guide them and help them.

Jen: 41:50

Yeah, there's, um, I read a lot of like recovery stuff, as well as you know, family support, and I was reading the other day something. And it just, it hit me because it was like, it was very relatable. And it said, you know, recovery is not difficult. It's our resistance to recovery, that makes it difficult. And so I think it's the same for the families when people resist educating themselves, maybe because they're like, oh, I don't want to hear it. I don't want to know, because like, if I don't know about it, I don't have to do anything about it, right? I don't, if I don't, there's so many reasons why someone will resist getting themselves educated. But it's important because it's like, when it's when you're in front of someone who is in that state of mind, you want to know how to respond. Otherwise, you just don't you're you're not able to, we take it personally. If we we make it about ourselves, when it's really just about the substances that they're on, they're like, it's the drugs talking. It's not them talking. Right? I can't tell you how many times family members get hurt feelings, because their their kid is just yelling the most vicious things to them. And it's not them talking. It's the drugs. And then there's all sorts of just complicated dynamics and hurt feelings and pain and suffering that, yes, it's gonna be there. But it's like, we also have to balance that out as well. So you're right, like, education is so important, we have to have it.

Linda: 43:31

And I think that we, we need to gain confidence, self confidence when a child is doing something because the shame and the guilt and what could I have done differently, and all of those feelings and emotions that come over us that when our child is, is in their addiction, we take on all of those things and, and so we need to get some self confidence back then it really isn't us, we didn't cause it, we can't control it. You know, we just have to help them and love them through it, and love them alongside their addiction,

Jen: 44:07

you know, absolutely. And all of the different elements in your program that I feel like you're talking about what I tell people is like, you know, this stuff, there's several spokes on a wheel. Each thing is just a simple spokes on a wheel. So education support community. All of those are just one spokes on a wheel. But when you put it all together, you actually get something that can turn really easily right. But we need them all. We need all this folks.

Unknown: 44:37

Absolutely. And one size doesn't fit all, you know, you may you may do a, you know a one on one and you may do an assessment with somebody and they don't need all of these tools. Like you said they need some of these tools. Some of these tools are definitely universal going to help them with with all of it, but they don't need all of them, you know, and so, doing the assessment doing the the Initial one on one call strategy call to set up, you know, a plan for them, and then tailor tailoring the program to their needs. That's the most important thing. So I think that that's really important when whether you're looking for a therapist or a counselor or coach, you need to find one who will listen to you, and tailor it to your needs, that you're not getting a box of chocolates that is, you know, the exact same, everyone is the same, you're getting something different.

Jen: 45:31

Yeah, and I think that's really important. So speaking of which talk a lot about the program, I really want to help people find you as well. So what is how is the way that people can find you,

Linda: 45:43

they can send me an email, and I'll send them some information. And my email is My name is linda.su ke@gmail.com. They can also find me on Facebook. And then if they want to, they can join the Facebook group group moms, helping moms with adult children struggling with addiction. So long name, but it's an amazing, amazing group. And it's a fast growing group and is, you know, get in there and tell your story and and get the support and encouragement from the members of the group. I think that's important.

Jen: 46:17

Absolutely. I think that's really important. Well, I just really want to thank you so much for coming on this podcast, sharing some of your story. I think your program is a great program that it's gonna help a lot of people. So I really encourage anyone that is listening to this, you can go to unbreakable boundaries, podcast.com. And I will have show notes in there. So they'll have easy links to help find you. So thank you so much. Is there any last things that you want to say before we wrap up?

Linda: 46:52

I think just saying a mother's love is the greatest gift we have, and giving it to our children unconditionally, no matter what they're going through, is really, and then giving the glory to God, that He's given us these gifts of our children.

Jen: 47:09

Yeah, yeah. Well, thank you so much. Thank you again. And thank you for listening to this podcast. If you want to listen to more find more information out about this podcast and more of what I do to help families you can go check out my page at unbreakableboundariespodcast.com, it's full of other great podcasts just like this one and other great resources to look through. And please remember to share this podcast with others you never know who may need to hear this people are often hiding their battles in this arena. And sharing is a great way to provide this valuable resource or person. You may not even know who needs it and don't forget, there is always hope, even when things seem the most hopeless.